Comments on: Ron Artest Ain’t Nothin’ to F… With… http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2004/11/20/ron-artest-aint-nothin-to-f-with/ The takeover. The break's over. Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:53:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: sounun http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2004/11/20/ron-artest-aint-nothin-to-f-with/#comment-200 sounun Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:54:04 +0000 http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=35#comment-200 I can't wait for that Young Buck and Ron Artest collabo album, Check The Replay- We Really Don't Give a F*ck. That would be certified gangsta. I can’t wait for that Young Buck and Ron Artest collabo album, Check The Replay- We Really Don’t Give a F*ck. That would be certified gangsta.

]]> By: Ben http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2004/11/20/ron-artest-aint-nothin-to-f-with/#comment-199 Ben Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:53:54 +0000 http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=35#comment-199 It's all Bush's fault. Don't ask how. Just is. It’s all Bush’s fault.

Don’t ask how. Just is.

]]> By: Kirk http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2004/11/20/ron-artest-aint-nothin-to-f-with/#comment-198 Kirk Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:31:54 +0000 http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=35#comment-198 The arguments about what athletes "deserve" to be paid are, in my opinion, way off mark. Think of it this way: The NBA has a monopoly in the professional basketball market in the United States. There's the occasional CBA, etc., but it's a monopoly. Now, realize that a payroll, if administered effectively, is basically a reinvestment in your business. You pay people to work and make your business better. Also, since the number of teams, and thus the number of roster spots (i.e., "jobs"), is limited, it's easier to pay higher salaries. After all, even if "everyone" asks for a raise, "everyone" is less than 20 employees. Finally, job performance is more easily measured, and more severely scrutinized, in sports than in any other profession. Hell, everyone in this country with an even passing interest in basketball has been arguing about Kobe's assists (or lack thereof) and shooting pct. for the last couple weeks. Mix this all together, and you have a profession with an extremely specialized set of skills, in an industry that leaves you very few second options, and with an extremely small talent pool DESPITE the fact that the number of positions in the league is carefully controlled. You're damn right they deserve their money, just because no one else can do what they do. Marketing hasn't got a damn thing to do with it. The League is past the startup phase. A compelling product is far more important than a funny commercial or a PR campaign, simply because people already know the name. To provide a compelling product, you find a man-child like LeBron, and you pay him a whole bunch of money to go in and make plays that make the Globetrotters look like a five man squad of midgets on cructhes. In other words, they deserve the money they make (and maybe even more) simply because no one posting on this blog is about to meet Shaquille underneath the basket. Not even with a shotgun and a head start. No matter how much you pay me, I can't spend it if I'm dead. The arguments about what athletes “deserve” to be paid are, in my opinion, way off mark. Think of it this way: The NBA has a monopoly in the professional basketball market in the United States. There’s the occasional CBA, etc., but it’s a monopoly. Now, realize that a payroll, if administered effectively, is basically a reinvestment in your business. You pay people to work and make your business better. Also, since the number of teams, and thus the number of roster spots (i.e., “jobs”), is limited, it’s easier to pay higher salaries. After all, even if “everyone” asks for a raise, “everyone” is less than 20 employees. Finally, job performance is more easily measured, and more severely scrutinized, in sports than in any other profession. Hell, everyone in this country with an even passing interest in basketball has been arguing about Kobe’s assists (or lack thereof) and shooting pct. for the last couple weeks.

Mix this all together, and you have a profession with an extremely specialized set of skills, in an industry that leaves you very few second options, and with an extremely small talent pool DESPITE the fact that the number of positions in the league is carefully controlled. You’re damn right they deserve their money, just because no one else can do what they do.

Marketing hasn’t got a damn thing to do with it. The League is past the startup phase. A compelling product is far more important than a funny commercial or a PR campaign, simply because people already know the name. To provide a compelling product, you find a man-child like LeBron, and you pay him a whole bunch of money to go in and make plays that make the Globetrotters look like a five man squad of midgets on cructhes.

In other words, they deserve the money they make (and maybe even more) simply because no one posting on this blog is about to meet Shaquille underneath the basket. Not even with a shotgun and a head start. No matter how much you pay me, I can’t spend it if I’m dead.

]]> By: Sean http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2004/11/20/ron-artest-aint-nothin-to-f-with/#comment-197 Sean Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:06:36 +0000 http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=35#comment-197 One of the local sports radio hosts here in South Florida said after the brawl that he's never known America -- in its politics, its entertainment, its relations among people -- to be so angry at any time in its history. True or not, I'm feeling some of that anger here all over Bo's board. So I'm assigning myself the role of Zen Moderator, Dean of Serene, all-around discourager of the swing-first, think-later attitude. First off, can we please spare some sympathy for the guy who didn't throw beer but still got slugged? One could argue the guy should have just left his seat on principle (along with everyone else in that section) and stepped onto the concourse. That way, the players, coaches and refs could work things out on the court without the tension-escalating presence of fans who were inappropriately entertained by brawling in front of the score table. But we all love a train wreck, so that's probably too much to ask. (I watched it live on TV in a bar in Miami Beach, and I can't say I turned away in disgust.) That leaves us to argue the time line and sequence of events. I'm wondering how calmly a fan could collect his thoughts and consider his butt-saving options, and execute those, in the middle of a melee, and with a big, fast, pissed-off athlete bearing down (or up, as the case was) on him. One difference between basketball and hockey -- you can get into the stands much faster on sneakers than skates. This guy might simply have been too stunned by all the lunacy around him to fully process what was happening, let alone move. Or run. Or point out the real perpetrator - - assuming he even knew who the real perpetrator was. But let's assume he was sufficiently hopped up on adrenaline and fully able, in fight-or-flight mode, to do all of the above. Does that capacity really make him responsible for his own injuries? Are you really willing to grant Ron Artest some sort of symbolic dispensation, to beat up someone as payback for all the past slights and humiliations heaped by fans on pro athletes? And to just write off the guy he targeted as collateral damage? That sounds sort of like the Bush case for, and conduct of, the war in Iraq. There's also a whiff of race-based rationalizing in some of the comments on this board: put-upon black athletes; obnoxious white fans. But I'd swear at least one fan who got punched was a person of color (the guy in sweats who ran on the court, if I can remember from my umpteenth viewing of the footage). So let's not assume bad manners and bad judgement are limited to white sports patrons - - although I grant you that that's statistically and culturally more likely to be the case. A lot of non-athletes in the primo, high-income seats are engaged in certain acts of, shall we say, compensation when they're screaming at or otherwise trying to abuse the players. As a white guy, I apologize for their, uh, shortcomings. But keep in mind, I've heard and seen that kind of ugliness directed at white Canadian hockey players as well as Domincan shortstops and African-American power forwards. No athlete is exempt. Lastly, consider the tale of the tape: scrawny fan; state-of-the-art athlete. This is hardly a fair fight. When Charles Barkley goes on CNN today and endorses the hit-'em-back rule, he's ignoring what that amounts to: major escalation. Artest is not a little guy. He is in theory capable of doing incredible, lasting damage with a single punch. And he's hardly alone. Who wants to stand in there and take an angry right hook from, say, Jeremy Shockey or Roger Clemens or Ray Lewis or anyone that physically trained and tuned? Yes, the fans need to learn self-control and those who don't should be shown the door permanently. In this case, a bunch ought to face assault charges and serious fines. But I can't see not holding Artest and Co., to the same standards, and the same consequences. If we allow the sad history of fan boorishness to stand as his alibi, then we also have to account for Artest's own history of multiple suspensions, and his apparent refusal to take responsibility for, and control of, his temper. One of the local sports radio hosts here in South Florida said after the brawl that he’s never known America — in its politics, its entertainment, its relations among people — to be so angry at any time in its history. True or not, I’m feeling some of that anger here all over Bo’s board. So I’m assigning myself the role of Zen Moderator, Dean of Serene, all-around discourager of the swing-first, think-later attitude.
First off, can we please spare some sympathy for the guy who didn’t throw beer but still got slugged? One could argue the guy should have just left his seat on principle (along with everyone else in that section) and stepped onto the concourse. That way, the players, coaches and refs could work things out on the court without the tension-escalating presence of fans who were inappropriately entertained by brawling in front of the score table. But we all love a train wreck, so that’s probably too much to ask. (I watched it live on TV in a bar in Miami Beach, and I can’t say I turned away in disgust.)
That leaves us to argue the time line and sequence of events. I’m wondering how calmly a fan could collect his thoughts and consider his butt-saving options, and execute those, in the middle of a melee, and with a big, fast, pissed-off athlete bearing down (or up, as the case was) on him. One difference between basketball and hockey — you can get into the stands much faster on sneakers than skates.
This guy might simply have been too stunned by all the lunacy around him to fully process what was happening, let alone move. Or run. Or point out the real perpetrator - - assuming he even knew who the real perpetrator was.
But let’s assume he was sufficiently hopped up on adrenaline and fully able, in fight-or-flight mode, to do all of the above. Does that capacity really make him responsible for his own injuries? Are you really willing to grant Ron Artest some sort of symbolic dispensation, to beat up someone as payback for all the past slights and humiliations heaped by fans on pro athletes? And to just write off the guy he targeted as collateral damage? That sounds sort of like the Bush case for, and conduct of, the war in Iraq.
There’s also a whiff of race-based rationalizing in some of the comments on this board: put-upon black athletes; obnoxious white fans. But I’d swear at least one fan who got punched was a person of color (the guy in sweats who ran on the court, if I can remember from my umpteenth viewing of the footage). So let’s not assume bad manners and bad judgement are limited to white sports patrons - - although I grant you that that’s statistically and culturally more likely to be the case. A lot of non-athletes in the primo, high-income seats are engaged in certain acts of, shall we say, compensation when they’re screaming at or otherwise trying to abuse the players. As a white guy, I apologize for their, uh, shortcomings. But keep in mind, I’ve heard and seen that kind of ugliness directed at white Canadian hockey players as well as Domincan shortstops and African-American power forwards. No athlete is exempt.
Lastly, consider the tale of the tape: scrawny fan; state-of-the-art athlete. This is hardly a fair fight. When Charles Barkley goes on CNN today and endorses the hit-’em-back rule, he’s ignoring what that amounts to: major escalation. Artest is not a little guy. He is in theory capable of doing incredible, lasting damage with a single punch. And he’s hardly alone. Who wants to stand in there and take an angry right hook from, say, Jeremy Shockey or Roger Clemens or Ray Lewis or anyone that physically trained and tuned?
Yes, the fans need to learn self-control and those who don’t should be shown the door permanently. In this case, a bunch ought to face assault charges and serious fines. But I can’t see not holding Artest and Co., to the same standards, and the same consequences. If we allow the sad history of fan boorishness to stand as his alibi, then we also have to account for Artest’s own history of multiple suspensions, and his apparent refusal to take responsibility for, and control of, his temper.

]]> By: MsInstyle http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2004/11/20/ron-artest-aint-nothin-to-f-with/#comment-196 MsInstyle Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:59:00 +0000 http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=35#comment-196 Point taken. I know PLENTY of basketball players and I know their "struggle" and a lot of the times its the same struggle that MOST people of color go through ... there are very few black folks that are actually born into money. We all have a story to tell about our struggle. My thing is this ... the ability to play basketball is a marketable talent. People will watch, therefore they get paid because folks want to advertise to the fans. There are MANY people who have TALENTS and fine talents at that ... they just always aren't marketable and that's why I have an issue of what one deserves to be paid. Sure ... you can like your job. You should enjoy your job, but making MILLIONS of dollars to play basketball just doesn't add up to me ... it apparently adds up to you and that's fine. I know many players and I'm always a bit in digust at their behavior ... they know that what they're doing is UNREAL. That's why you can't expect them to have respect for anything ... they're worshiped for their athleticism ... not something that I thing a human being should be worshiped for ... but that's just me. Weak argument or NOT ... that's my two cents. Point taken.

I know PLENTY of basketball players and I know their “struggle” and a lot of the times its the same struggle that MOST people of color go through … there are very few black folks that are actually born into money. We all have a story to tell about our struggle.

My thing is this … the ability to play basketball is a marketable talent. People will watch, therefore they get paid because folks want to advertise to the fans. There are MANY people who have TALENTS and fine talents at that … they just always aren’t marketable and that’s why I have an issue of what one deserves to be paid.

Sure … you can like your job. You should enjoy your job, but making MILLIONS of dollars to play basketball just doesn’t add up to me … it apparently adds up to you and that’s fine.

I know many players and I’m always a bit in digust at their behavior … they know that what they’re doing is UNREAL. That’s why you can’t expect them to have respect for anything … they’re worshiped for their athleticism … not something that I thing a human being should be worshiped for … but that’s just me.

Weak argument or NOT … that’s my two cents.

]]> By: james dillard http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2004/11/20/ron-artest-aint-nothin-to-f-with/#comment-195 james dillard Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:37:36 +0000 http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=35#comment-195 Whatever the punishment is for the Indiana Pacers, it should be just as painful for the fans of the Pistons. For the combined total of the games Indiana players were supsended for (including playoffs) Detroit fans should be forced to go without the things they threw at players. That includes beer, popcorn (or other refreshments) and chairs. If we demand dignity of the players, we must also demand of the fans - perhaps more so because the fans aren't caught up in the emotion of the game (which can be mind numbingly real). I don't have a problem with punishing the Pacers for their roles in the brawl; I have a HUGE problem letting off Detroit fans free. Whatever the punishment is for the Indiana Pacers, it should be just as painful for the fans of the Pistons. For the combined total of the games Indiana players were supsended for (including playoffs) Detroit fans should be forced to go without the things they threw at players. That includes beer, popcorn (or other refreshments) and chairs. If we demand dignity of the players, we must also demand of the fans - perhaps more so because the fans aren’t caught up in the emotion of the game (which can be mind numbingly real). I don’t have a problem with punishing the Pacers for their roles in the brawl; I have a HUGE problem letting off Detroit fans free.

]]> By: Bomani http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2004/11/20/ron-artest-aint-nothin-to-f-with/#comment-194 Bomani Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:11:39 +0000 http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=35#comment-194 Rarely will I post a comment on my own board, but this comment necessitates that I do so. If basketball players do not deserve millions of dollars, who does? If you're positing that earnings should be determined by some meritocracy, a scale based upon effort, you may have an argument (albeit a shaky one). But we all know that this is capitalism, meaning that earnings are determined by the revenue a player can generate. If you bring in lots of money, you make lots of money. It's just that simple. Garbage men work hard as hell and make scraps. They <em>really</em> work for their money. So are you proposing that they should make more? I personally think they should, but I'm not convinced that such a move is something you would propose. Hell, I get paid to sit at my computer and write about music. Is <em>that</em> work? And would you say I'm unappreciative because my job isn't hard enough? The idea that running up and down the court is not work is also a little silly to me. If one were to ask a pro basketball player how much time he has spent honing his craft in hours, I doubt anyone would say they do not work for what they have. It's physical labor that masquerades as a game. So, if you like what you do, you shouldn't make as much? You should be paid with good feelings? Is that's what is being said? If so, that seems a little shaky. But really, go ask Ron Artest if he doesn't respect struggle. Ride with him through Queensbridge and ask him if he doesn't respect how hard people work to get what they have. Ask Stephen Jackson the same thing. Ask Ben Wallace, the son of a sharecropper, how he feels about that. Ask most of those cats in the league, many of whom chose basketball as their ticket because most other legal options seemed terribly bleak, if they don't understand how hard people work to get by. If they didn't realize that, they wouldn't work so hard to make it to the league. But if you don't think what they do is work, then that line of thought may not seem to make sense. Do anything long enough, and it'll become a job. I bet even porn stars call in sick. Rarely will I post a comment on my own board, but this comment necessitates that I do so.

If basketball players do not deserve millions of dollars, who does? If you’re positing that earnings should be determined by some meritocracy, a scale based upon effort, you may have an argument (albeit a shaky one). But we all know that this is capitalism, meaning that earnings are determined by the revenue a player can generate. If you bring in lots of money, you make lots of money. It’s just that simple.

Garbage men work hard as hell and make scraps. They really work for their money. So are you proposing that they should make more? I personally think they should, but I’m not convinced that such a move is something you would propose.

Hell, I get paid to sit at my computer and write about music. Is that work? And would you say I’m unappreciative because my job isn’t hard enough?

The idea that running up and down the court is not work is also a little silly to me. If one were to ask a pro basketball player how much time he has spent honing his craft in hours, I doubt anyone would say they do not work for what they have. It’s physical labor that masquerades as a game. So, if you like what you do, you shouldn’t make as much? You should be paid with good feelings? Is that’s what is being said? If so, that seems a little shaky.

But really, go ask Ron Artest if he doesn’t respect struggle. Ride with him through Queensbridge and ask him if he doesn’t respect how hard people work to get what they have. Ask Stephen Jackson the same thing. Ask Ben Wallace, the son of a sharecropper, how he feels about that. Ask most of those cats in the league, many of whom chose basketball as their ticket because most other legal options seemed terribly bleak, if they don’t understand how hard people work to get by.

If they didn’t realize that, they wouldn’t work so hard to make it to the league. But if you don’t think what they do is work, then that line of thought may not seem to make sense.

Do anything long enough, and it’ll become a job. I bet even porn stars call in sick.

]]> By: MsInstyle http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2004/11/20/ron-artest-aint-nothin-to-f-with/#comment-193 MsInstyle Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:58:42 +0000 http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=35#comment-193 People KILL me trying to compare Donald Trump and Bill Gates to modern day negro millionaires. Donald Trump and Bill Gates didn't become millionaires OVER NIGHT ... much like NBA players do. I know plenty of players and when money comes that quick ... they have no regard for the struggle that some folks spend years or exhausting ALL of their savings to achieve this dream. So am I surprised ... NO NOT REALLY. These fools acutally think that they DESERVE millions of dollars to run up and down the court everyday ... they DO NOT! They get it because of advertising ... plain and simple. If they really had to WORK to make millions ... they'd have a different approach ... but they don't ... so don't expect anything different. People KILL me trying to compare Donald Trump and Bill Gates to modern day negro millionaires.

Donald Trump and Bill Gates didn’t become millionaires OVER NIGHT … much like NBA players do. I know plenty of players and when money comes that quick … they have no regard for the struggle that some folks spend years or exhausting ALL of their savings to achieve this dream.

So am I surprised … NO NOT REALLY. These fools acutally think that they DESERVE millions of dollars to run up and down the court everyday … they DO NOT! They get it because of advertising … plain and simple.

If they really had to WORK to make millions … they’d have a different approach … but they don’t … so don’t expect anything different.

]]> By: bj tillman http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2004/11/20/ron-artest-aint-nothin-to-f-with/#comment-192 bj tillman Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:30:52 +0000 http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=35#comment-192 I don't care what anyone says...f*ck 'respect' when you have your career and millions of dollars on the line. Ron Artest will now lose over $5,000,000, (that's 5 MILLION), dollars in income due to being suspended for the rest of the season. Jermain O'Neal will lose over $4,000,000, (that's 4 MILLION), dollars due to being suspended for the rest of the season. Now, I don't know how much the rest of you cats that post on here earn, however when you earn that type of money you have to learn to deal with things in a different manner. You will NEVER, i repeat NEVER, see Donald Trump or Bill Gates throwin' down no matter what another person says about them. Instead, you'll see their attorneys in court handlin' their business in the way that men of their status handle business. Come on black people, we really need to W-A-K-E U-P! (And we wonder why 50% of the prison population is made up of us!) bj from da' hood I don’t care what anyone says…f*ck ‘respect’ when you have your career and millions of dollars on the line. Ron Artest will now lose over $5,000,000, (that’s 5 MILLION), dollars in income due to being suspended for the rest of the season. Jermain O’Neal will lose over $4,000,000, (that’s 4 MILLION), dollars due to being suspended for the rest of the season. Now, I don’t know how much the rest of you cats that post on here earn, however when you earn that type of money you have to learn to deal with things in a different manner. You will NEVER, i repeat NEVER, see Donald Trump or Bill Gates throwin’ down no matter what another person says about them. Instead, you’ll see their attorneys in court handlin’ their business in the way that men of their status handle business. Come on black people, we really need to W-A-K-E U-P! (And we wonder why 50% of the prison population is made up of us!)

bj from da’ hood

]]> By: Elizabeth http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2004/11/20/ron-artest-aint-nothin-to-f-with/#comment-191 Elizabeth Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:58:24 +0000 http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=35#comment-191 OK...I was watching this game, but prematurely shut it off with like 2 minutes left cuz there was no way Detroit was coming back by the point. Dammit I wish I'd stayed tuned. #1 Artest is nuts, but not because he brought the ruckus into the stands Friday night. It's obvious he got issues. (Anyone see that interview with him when he was saying he needed time off and wanted to focus on his music career? Did dude know he was on camera?) Artest was already on the NBA's shit list before he ran off in the crowd. If they didn't get him for this, they would've found a reason. #2 What?! Ben Wallace was not to blame. (response to a post) #3 I agree with Bo. Some asses had to go down just off principle. One thing I found unbelievable is how fans began coming together to collectively try to jump on the players. That was the most shocking thing for me. And then not enough, they came onto the court and continued to assault the players even as they exited the arena. Fans should not be above an ass whoopin! Proteck ya goddamn neck! OK…I was watching this game, but prematurely shut it off with like 2 minutes left cuz there was no way Detroit was coming back by the point. Dammit I wish I’d stayed tuned.

#1 Artest is nuts, but not because he brought the ruckus into the stands Friday night. It’s obvious he got issues. (Anyone see that interview with him when he was saying he needed time off and wanted to focus on his music career? Did dude know he was on camera?) Artest was already on the NBA’s shit list before he ran off in the crowd. If they didn’t get him for this, they would’ve found a reason.

#2 What?! Ben Wallace was not to blame. (response to a post)

#3 I agree with Bo. Some asses had to go down just off principle. One thing I found unbelievable is how fans began coming together to collectively try to jump on the players. That was the most shocking thing for me. And then not enough, they came onto the court and continued to assault the players even as they exited the arena. Fans should not be above an ass whoopin!

Proteck ya goddamn neck!

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