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	<title>Comments on: Mr. Jones Went to Washington and Checked the Cato</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/</link>
	<description>The takeover.  The break's over.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/#comment-2773</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jun 2006 10:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=416#comment-2773</guid>
		<description>Early in my college career, before I understood stuff..I actually fashioned myself as one of those conservative types. As far as your assessment of liberatarians, my experience with some unabashed free-market anarchocapitalist libertarian types is...the more they talk, the more vitrol starts to seep out and then I have to tune them out.

Especially as it relates to America. The issue is -- and you proved it with your question for him -- these folks fail to understand the history as it happened and have whitewashed it under the idealism that "easily explains" all of it.

Whoopi Goldberg was on FOX news the other night and that channel generally serves as entertainment for me..anyway, she made a point that's really been the crux of my arguments with (fellow?) conservatives for a long time...and my main bone of contention.

You can't paint everyone with a broad brush and then say "well, the folks who aren't doing with the rest of us are doing are clearly out of the mainstream and thus are the real problem." Because its not quite that simply and it never IS that simple.

And having spent all but one of my college years in rural areas, all I've seen is this white underclass that these folks are clearly ignoring and its far worse than anything I saw rolling through the hood to go to church on Sunday or to visit random family members.

The worst part is, those folks think they're better than the folks in city because of their "values" or something like that. The reality is, they're just as messed up -- if not worse -- and they'll just brush all the problems (drug use, domestic violence, youth suicide, etc.) under the table to keep that myth going.

I realize this post was all over the place, but needless to say...I appreciated the segue into economics.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Early in my college career, before I understood stuff..I actually fashioned myself as one of those conservative types. As far as your assessment of liberatarians, my experience with some unabashed free-market anarchocapitalist libertarian types is&#8230;the more they talk, the more vitrol starts to seep out and then I have to tune them out.</p>
<p>Especially as it relates to America. The issue is &#8212; and you proved it with your question for him &#8212; these folks fail to understand the history as it happened and have whitewashed it under the idealism that &#8220;easily explains&#8221; all of it.</p>
<p>Whoopi Goldberg was on FOX news the other night and that channel generally serves as entertainment for me..anyway, she made a point that&#8217;s really been the crux of my arguments with (fellow?) conservatives for a long time&#8230;and my main bone of contention.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t paint everyone with a broad brush and then say &#8220;well, the folks who aren&#8217;t doing with the rest of us are doing are clearly out of the mainstream and thus are the real problem.&#8221; Because its not quite that simply and it never IS that simple.</p>
<p>And having spent all but one of my college years in rural areas, all I&#8217;ve seen is this white underclass that these folks are clearly ignoring and its far worse than anything I saw rolling through the hood to go to church on Sunday or to visit random family members.</p>
<p>The worst part is, those folks think they&#8217;re better than the folks in city because of their &#8220;values&#8221; or something like that. The reality is, they&#8217;re just as messed up &#8212; if not worse &#8212; and they&#8217;ll just brush all the problems (drug use, domestic violence, youth suicide, etc.) under the table to keep that myth going.</p>
<p>I realize this post was all over the place, but needless to say&#8230;I appreciated the segue into economics.</p>
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		<title>By: CBell</title>
		<link>http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/#comment-2772</link>
		<dc:creator>CBell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=416#comment-2772</guid>
		<description>wow, your post let me know i actually understood and absorbed something from a microecon course i took last semester. clearly, i'm not as well versed as others on the topic, but i will say that though i can see the logic behind their having to be a lower class, it still doesn't make sense that people have to live in such abject poverty. i mean, it's true everyone can't be a Bill Gates, but everyone should at least have their basic needs met, and at least have a real shot at attaining that level of wealth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, your post let me know i actually understood and absorbed something from a microecon course i took last semester. clearly, i&#8217;m not as well versed as others on the topic, but i will say that though i can see the logic behind their having to be a lower class, it still doesn&#8217;t make sense that people have to live in such abject poverty. i mean, it&#8217;s true everyone can&#8217;t be a Bill Gates, but everyone should at least have their basic needs met, and at least have a real shot at attaining that level of wealth.</p>
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		<title>By: big grip</title>
		<link>http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/#comment-2771</link>
		<dc:creator>big grip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=416#comment-2771</guid>
		<description>I too am a college kid from the 80's and I wanted to attest to the greatness of Bias.  His game was elegant.  I know that it seems strange to use that description, but that's the only word that I could think of.  ACC basketball games were must see TV in those days.  The Bias/Jordan matchups had the hype of today's national championship games.  Len was truly a "prince" among his contemporaries.  He was one of the first college guys to "dress like a professional".  He had the nice suits that he wore to the games.  He would not hesitate to ram on anyone who dared to challenge him, but he was almost a "pure" shooter as well!! Len's passing opened up our eyes about the folly of coaine abuse.

Great piece by Bo and by Scoop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too am a college kid from the 80&#8217;s and I wanted to attest to the greatness of Bias.  His game was elegant.  I know that it seems strange to use that description, but that&#8217;s the only word that I could think of.  ACC basketball games were must see TV in those days.  The Bias/Jordan matchups had the hype of today&#8217;s national championship games.  Len was truly a &#8220;prince&#8221; among his contemporaries.  He was one of the first college guys to &#8220;dress like a professional&#8221;.  He had the nice suits that he wore to the games.  He would not hesitate to ram on anyone who dared to challenge him, but he was almost a &#8220;pure&#8221; shooter as well!! Len&#8217;s passing opened up our eyes about the folly of coaine abuse.</p>
<p>Great piece by Bo and by Scoop.</p>
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		<title>By: Solomeen</title>
		<link>http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/#comment-2770</link>
		<dc:creator>Solomeen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 01:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=416#comment-2770</guid>
		<description>I'm not even going to pretend to be able to offer any kind of insightful words on the Economics portion of Bo's post, so I'll just move on to Len Bias.

I remember my mom giving me the news about his death and it just floored me.  The memory of him taking my beloved Tarheels out behind the woodshed -- in Chapel Hill, no less -- was my foremost memory of him at that time.  His death changed that.

In the years since, I've looked at the NBA and I've wondered how his presence would have changed the dynamics of the league.  But I also wonder what would've happened if he had survived that night and we'd never known he'd snorted coke.

Would Bias, as many have suggested, have been the next "Great One" or would he have been the next Michael Ray?  Would he have had epic battles with Sir Charles and Clyde and MJ or would he be a bigger bust than fellow draftmate Chris Washburn?  I can't honestly say I know for sure.  People say it was his first encounter with the drug, but you have to wonder if the money and ever-present youthful arrogance would've led to an addiction to Chyna White.

In any event, I think the death of Len Bias brought more attention than Nancy "Just Say No!" Reagan EVER could've.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not even going to pretend to be able to offer any kind of insightful words on the Economics portion of Bo&#8217;s post, so I&#8217;ll just move on to Len Bias.</p>
<p>I remember my mom giving me the news about his death and it just floored me.  The memory of him taking my beloved Tarheels out behind the woodshed &#8212; in Chapel Hill, no less &#8212; was my foremost memory of him at that time.  His death changed that.</p>
<p>In the years since, I&#8217;ve looked at the NBA and I&#8217;ve wondered how his presence would have changed the dynamics of the league.  But I also wonder what would&#8217;ve happened if he had survived that night and we&#8217;d never known he&#8217;d snorted coke.</p>
<p>Would Bias, as many have suggested, have been the next &#8220;Great One&#8221; or would he have been the next Michael Ray?  Would he have had epic battles with Sir Charles and Clyde and MJ or would he be a bigger bust than fellow draftmate Chris Washburn?  I can&#8217;t honestly say I know for sure.  People say it was his first encounter with the drug, but you have to wonder if the money and ever-present youthful arrogance would&#8217;ve led to an addiction to Chyna White.</p>
<p>In any event, I think the death of Len Bias brought more attention than Nancy &#8220;Just Say No!&#8221; Reagan EVER could&#8217;ve.</p>
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		<title>By: Farmdog</title>
		<link>http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/#comment-2769</link>
		<dc:creator>Farmdog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=416#comment-2769</guid>
		<description>wow, dewfish, that was a great link...it really hits me hard, I have been a huge fan of acc ball since the late '70's when I was a kid, and always follow the careers of acc players in the pros...nobody who watches todays game can really grasp where some of the style comes from if they missed Lenny B-- his elevation on his jumper for a 6'8 guy is unprecedented, he would shoot the jumper and flare his legs out...when we were in high school we used to all do that when the coaches weren't lookin' and pretend we were him...he is like a missing link between MJ (even though they were contemporaries, MJ never really got to let loose until he split for the pro's) and, well, I would say no one has his type of power and speed and lift, coupled with a feathery touch and a real nasty streak protecting the rim...Lebron comes closest...and you're right about the comments...I feel very strongly about the inequality of wealth, I see it first hand as I have business partners that invested more money than me into our business, while I have all the know how, and they make my life miserable at every turn...they do not value their employees, and will squeeze a nickel out of a high school kid so they can buy a second home...it's disgusting...the problem with rich people is the disconnect that they have with the real world...they don't have any idea what it's like to need, but they have a very good grasp on what it's like to want...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, dewfish, that was a great link&#8230;it really hits me hard, I have been a huge fan of acc ball since the late &#8217;70&#8217;s when I was a kid, and always follow the careers of acc players in the pros&#8230;nobody who watches todays game can really grasp where some of the style comes from if they missed Lenny B&#8211; his elevation on his jumper for a 6&#8242;8 guy is unprecedented, he would shoot the jumper and flare his legs out&#8230;when we were in high school we used to all do that when the coaches weren&#8217;t lookin&#8217; and pretend we were him&#8230;he is like a missing link between MJ (even though they were contemporaries, MJ never really got to let loose until he split for the pro&#8217;s) and, well, I would say no one has his type of power and speed and lift, coupled with a feathery touch and a real nasty streak protecting the rim&#8230;Lebron comes closest&#8230;and you&#8217;re right about the comments&#8230;I feel very strongly about the inequality of wealth, I see it first hand as I have business partners that invested more money than me into our business, while I have all the know how, and they make my life miserable at every turn&#8230;they do not value their employees, and will squeeze a nickel out of a high school kid so they can buy a second home&#8230;it&#8217;s disgusting&#8230;the problem with rich people is the disconnect that they have with the real world&#8230;they don&#8217;t have any idea what it&#8217;s like to need, but they have a very good grasp on what it&#8217;s like to want&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: dewfish</title>
		<link>http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/#comment-2768</link>
		<dc:creator>dewfish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=416#comment-2768</guid>
		<description>Its very interesting how you had two important topics in this column (I know there were actually three topics, but James Blake takes a back seat to Len Bias and the inequality of wealth), and how the people who had strong views on one topic didn't really have much to say about the other. I would never assume that one of those two topics were more important than the other, just an observation. 

I guess I'll start with the issue of wealth inequality. While I agree that everyone cant be on top, and that rich doesn't equal greedy, the ability to reach that upper echelon of wealth should at least be somewhat attainable by the average person, even if it is a hard path.

As far as Len Bias goes, if you weren't around or interested in basketball at that time, its hard to describe how good of a player he really was and why it is such a tragedy that he is gone. For those that never saw him play, this will give you sort of an idea what he was like.
&lt;a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsE0Th50SII&#38;search=len%20bias" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsE0Th50SII&#38;search=len%20bias&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its very interesting how you had two important topics in this column (I know there were actually three topics, but James Blake takes a back seat to Len Bias and the inequality of wealth), and how the people who had strong views on one topic didn&#8217;t really have much to say about the other. I would never assume that one of those two topics were more important than the other, just an observation. </p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;ll start with the issue of wealth inequality. While I agree that everyone cant be on top, and that rich doesn&#8217;t equal greedy, the ability to reach that upper echelon of wealth should at least be somewhat attainable by the average person, even if it is a hard path.</p>
<p>As far as Len Bias goes, if you weren&#8217;t around or interested in basketball at that time, its hard to describe how good of a player he really was and why it is such a tragedy that he is gone. For those that never saw him play, this will give you sort of an idea what he was like.<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsE0Th50SII&amp;search=len%20bias" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsE0Th50SII&amp;search=len%20bias</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/#comment-2767</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=416#comment-2767</guid>
		<description>Hey, I just saw that the 'Canes won. They must be partying by the tens in the Carolinas tonight!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I just saw that the &#8216;Canes won. They must be partying by the tens in the Carolinas tonight!</p>
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		<title>By: eauhellzgnaw</title>
		<link>http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/#comment-2766</link>
		<dc:creator>eauhellzgnaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=416#comment-2766</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah,  nice Bias piece.  I wasn't watching college ball back then, so I had no clue how good he was or how good he could have been in the League, but the fact that, like you, none of my black friends would either never even consider doing coke or would never think doing it was cool is in part a testament to Bias' impact.  Powder doesn't have the same kind of stigma as rock, but at least it has a stigma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah,  nice Bias piece.  I wasn&#8217;t watching college ball back then, so I had no clue how good he was or how good he could have been in the League, but the fact that, like you, none of my black friends would either never even consider doing coke or would never think doing it was cool is in part a testament to Bias&#8217; impact.  Powder doesn&#8217;t have the same kind of stigma as rock, but at least it has a stigma.</p>
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		<title>By: eauhellzgnaw</title>
		<link>http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/#comment-2765</link>
		<dc:creator>eauhellzgnaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=416#comment-2765</guid>
		<description>That sucks.  You expect that kind of nonsense from half-wits like Horowitz and Coulter, but this guy’s not a complete idiot, and he’s supposed to be legitimate.

Libertarians are no different than any other ideological group, some are intelligent; most are not. They are not really “Republicans in disguise.” And just how conservative they are depends on your definition of the word. If one defines “conservative” in terms of championing the market and limiting government intervention, then they are explicitly, unabashedly conservative.  If, however, one defines it more in terms of social issues, then a great deal of them are not conservative in the way that it’s come to mean here.  Many of them are socially progressive, and those who aren’t typically don’t want the government to legislate “morality.”

I have a few libertarian acquaintances and we always have fun, interesting discussions (I kid them that they should find it odd that a good deal of libertarians come from privilege in one way or another).  Even though I have serious issues with their vision of human beings and society, I am occasionally willing to entertain their harebrained schemes, simply because they couldn't possibly be any worse than some current policies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That sucks.  You expect that kind of nonsense from half-wits like Horowitz and Coulter, but this guy’s not a complete idiot, and he’s supposed to be legitimate.</p>
<p>Libertarians are no different than any other ideological group, some are intelligent; most are not. They are not really “Republicans in disguise.” And just how conservative they are depends on your definition of the word. If one defines “conservative” in terms of championing the market and limiting government intervention, then they are explicitly, unabashedly conservative.  If, however, one defines it more in terms of social issues, then a great deal of them are not conservative in the way that it’s come to mean here.  Many of them are socially progressive, and those who aren’t typically don’t want the government to legislate “morality.”</p>
<p>I have a few libertarian acquaintances and we always have fun, interesting discussions (I kid them that they should find it odd that a good deal of libertarians come from privilege in one way or another).  Even though I have serious issues with their vision of human beings and society, I am occasionally willing to entertain their harebrained schemes, simply because they couldn&#8217;t possibly be any worse than some current policies.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/2006/06/19/mr-jones-went-to-washington-and-checked-the-cato/#comment-2764</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bomanijones.com/blog/?p=416#comment-2764</guid>
		<description>Most measures of income inequality are irreparably flawed, both in terms of specification and actual data collection.  That's not to suggest that it doesn't exist and that it doesn't usually have a negative impact on people and economies, but attributing any specific event or phenomenon directly to income inequality is problematic at best.

Also, few people seem to understand that some degree of income inequality is a necessary condition for any society, regardless of economic structure, to sustain itself.  Someone has to be "rich", and someone has to be "poor".  If everyone is about the same, the incentives that typically motivate people more or less disappear.

Clearly, your buddy at Cato wasn't prepared, and doesn't know half of what he thinks he does about the question.  No surprise there, but people on the other side of the coin are usually just as far off the mark, but in a different direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most measures of income inequality are irreparably flawed, both in terms of specification and actual data collection.  That&#8217;s not to suggest that it doesn&#8217;t exist and that it doesn&#8217;t usually have a negative impact on people and economies, but attributing any specific event or phenomenon directly to income inequality is problematic at best.</p>
<p>Also, few people seem to understand that some degree of income inequality is a necessary condition for any society, regardless of economic structure, to sustain itself.  Someone has to be &#8220;rich&#8221;, and someone has to be &#8220;poor&#8221;.  If everyone is about the same, the incentives that typically motivate people more or less disappear.</p>
<p>Clearly, your buddy at Cato wasn&#8217;t prepared, and doesn&#8217;t know half of what he thinks he does about the question.  No surprise there, but people on the other side of the coin are usually just as far off the mark, but in a different direction.</p>
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