I view this site largely as a community. And in a community, I prefer to have some manners and respect for people. Those manners and respect typically preclude me from overtly saying that people are stupid.
But a few of you are really testing me.
As Stephanie points out, being “positive” isn’t enough to make a good record, nor is “negative” enough to make a bad one. Before doing anything else, music should be entertaining and interesting. Whatever message that someone chooses to drop within that music is cool, but I don’t give a damn what it is if it isn’t entertaining. To me, India.Arie isn’t entertaining. And from the looks of it, she’s not that entertaining to her defenders, either.
Where many of you seem to stray is by assuming I blasted her message. In fact, I did not. Quoting me…
I guess I understand that women are forced to deal with so many negative images of themselves that there’s some measure of empowerment that comes from someone blatantly rejecting that stuff.
Is that blasting her message? I don’t think it is.
But I went further and challenged you to do more.
So without talking about the positive qualities of her music, could someone please tell me what there is about India.Arie that deserves anyone’s attention?
And interestingly enough, only a couple of people could do that. Thanks, Rex.
I don’t feel one way or another about what Arie’s out there trying to do. I think her message of self-love is good, even though that “queen” bullshit is just too much for me. So let’s say that all us dudes are “kings.” Somebody in Nubia had to take out the trash, yanno? If it was just a bunch of kings, then that would be like a King Family Reunion.
Have you ever been to a family reunion for the King family? If you have, you know that shit don’t look like a gathering at the kingdom of Kush.
Anyway, I’m okay with her message. In fact, I’m okay with pretty much any message people put out there so long as it’s done in an interesting manner. Compelling would be nice, but I’ll take interesting and entertaining. On this site, I’ve publicly mentioned my personal attempts to curb the destructive images I consume. However, I will not replace those images with boring stuff because its “positive.” The following people figured out how to make positive stuff while still being entertaining.
Stevie Wonder
Bob Marley
Aretha Franklin
Sly and the Family Stone
Public Enemy
Living Colour
Lauryn Hill
The Beatles
Neil Young
Queen Latifah
Kanye West
Jill Scott
And I listen to all of them fairly religiously (except Latifah, who I dig but don’t love). But not because they’re so positive. I listen because they’re music is good. If I want to consume something primarily to educate me and enlighten me, I’ll go read a damn book. Entertain me first. That’s something Aaron McGruder dropped on me in an interview, and it has stuck with me. If an artist is not entertaining, he or she is useless.
If I were pooh-poohing Arie’s message, then I would have been one of the first people to champion Jill Scott when she dropped in 2001. While folks were barely hearing about her, I was talking to her backstage with my man Cory Brown trying to figure out ways to get her music to more people and to spread the word. Why did I do that? Because her music is great! Her methods of presentation are unique, her voice is incredible, and she can sing her ass off. But if the music wasn’t great, I wouldn’t try to listen to her a second time. That’s not a rejection of the message. That’s a rejection of the music.
My man Kobie went so far as to call me a chauvanist for this view I have. This is a months after he sent me an e-mail essentially calling me an Uncle Tom. Clearly, he came around on that one so I have faith he can come around on this one. When did not liking someone’s music make someone a chauvanist? If I’m a chauvanist, tell me why I’m into Jill Scott so much (even though her second album was booooooooring). Thanks.
Others of you have asked how I could criticize Arie and then praise No Limit. Anyone that asked that, quite frankly, is either illiterate or just doesn’t read close. The entire No Limit post is littered with digs at the label. In fact, I couldn’t even finish teh whole damn list. That’s praise? What are you talking about? No Limit was historically significant, and all of you know what a buff I am for music history. You also know that most of you had never heard half of the songs I listed, and you know I like to list things that people might be interested in learning something about. None of that qualifies as praise. The responses sound like a bunch of people that just didn’t read. And my very good friend alldaydre who left that post just to sound crazy and pick on me, and a couple of you were dumb enough to ride along with him (and I know he feels that way because we talked on the phone about it last night).
I was hoping that more people would get the underlying point of the Arie post, and it seems most of you didn’t. Every day, I hear somebody complaining about how music isn’t creative anymore and how people just find a theme and talk about it over and over again and how bored they are.
But then those same people love India.Arie, who does the exact same thing!
If you’re going to say the problem in this is a lack of creativity, be real with yourself. It’s just like those underground hip hop fans who claim to be so enlightened because of the music they claim to like, even though they’re sheep to beats like everyone else. You know those folks–the ones that claim to be so positive but listen to MOP three times a day.
And I don’t knock you for listening to MOP or India.Arie. I personally wondered if there was something about Arie beyond the “positive” schtick that would make her compelling. And for all this “you have to be a black woman to understand” noise half of you talked, only a white man in Hawaii offered something other than “she makes me feel good.”
I appreciate those that said she made them feel good, because that illuminated something I alluded to in that post but didn’t fully flesh out. If anyone needs an indication of how hard it is out there for black women, it seems you just need to peep the success of India.Arie. After being battered and bruised by people and the media for centuries, all it takes is something saying “love yourself” to make many black women happy. That’s all it takes. And it’s not because the message is unique or profound. It’s just because someone’s actually saying it instead of saying things that are obviously harmful and heartless.
And if all it takes is someone saying something nice to you to pull you in, we’ve got serious problems. The sad part–I don’t blame folks for jumping on her for that reason. It’s just a damn shame we live in a world where people will willingly embrace someone as boring and pedantic as India.Arie simply because she exists.
is india arie talented? of course..
is she entertaining? i think so.
is she guilty of re-packaging the same song? definitely.
first off, i’m an objective voice on this issue. i don’t own an india arie album. i saw her perform live during the sade “lover’s rock” tour. and i walked away impressed. strong voice, rich texture, earthy vibe, down to earth personality, sincerity, humility, and yeah, positive lyrics. her voice has an reassuring quality, that emotes in the most subtle of ways. i can’t speak to her lyrics because i haven’t heard enough of her stuff. and yeah, like you, when i heard the hair song, i immediately said to myself, “here she goes again”. but that doesn’t mean i don’t like it. i like it a lot. 50’s “candy shop” sounded just like “magic stick”. his fans didn’t mind, so who am i to raise hell about it.
i think you under estimate the power of messages though. for instance, i thought lauryn’s first album was dope, but i rarely played it. it felt like a scorned woman’s album, and being a man, not a scorned woman, it didn’t speak to me. but her unplugged album, the one most people view as cold trash, i play that album way more than the first one. not because the music is better, but because the messages just speak to me more. maybe india just doesn’t speak to you, that doesn’ make her untalented. the fact that a guy as quirky as kanye can be accepted as a rapper says more about how he’s saying things people want to hear, than about how talented he is. dude raps, but is not a real rapper, sorry. to me people who hold up kanye are no different than backpackers holding up guys who write 100 bars and no hooks in every song. we all stand for the people who we feel represent our voice. in politics, those are the people who get our votes, and in music, those are the people, we tend to become the biggest fans of. india doesn’t get your vote, that’s peace. she still gets mine. one luv.
I don’t understand the need to hear a “message” from a musician anyway, regardless of race, gender, religion, or otherwise. I’m just not that fragile or damaged a human being. Entertaining = good, not entertaining = bad.
i thought i was done with this, but since i’ve been called out by the man himself, i feel obligated to reply. first things first: brotha bo (yeah, you still my brotha) asked how could anybody dig somebody like arie. well, after going through a bit of a rant where i mentioned the word chauvinism (more on that later) i finally got around to my point, which despite your strongest objections isn’t “stupid.” that is, in a nutshell: you like your music “entertaining” and “creative” (whatever that means), and that’s fine. but if you had a lil black girl under your care and guidance, then you might change your mind, you know, loosen up a bit. just a different way of looking at things from a man who is tryna be a decent dad. kids have the unavoidable and unnalterable ability to change one’s perspective. so why do i listen to arie or keys? because as martin lawrence used ta say, “i luv the kids!” especially my own. does this satisfy your criteria of only repping music that is artistic and entertaining. no, clearly it doesn’t. but i disagree that music could or should ONLY serve this purpose. whereas macgruder says “entertain me first, or you’re useless as an artist,” i say he’s wrong. help me teach a lil black girl how to feel good about herself in a world that is down on black people. don’t worry, i’m her daddy and so i’ma take most of the weight. but don’t fight me. give me arie who sings songs about the beauty of her hair and her skin color etc, images that lil girls the age of 6 are already struggling with. i don’t care if you think it’s “boring,” “pedantic,” or repetitive. kids need to hear that kind of message as often as possible, over and over again if needed. and like you said, brotha, you’re grown; so you can go read a book whenever you want some of that bookish-type enlightenment. now my daughter reads well for a 6 yr old, but she’s not ready for that kind of enlightenment, and of course she lacks musical sophistication. so it becomes my job to counteract that BET image. moreover, since when did it become “tired-assed” to point out the obvious truth that tv images contribute to the poor self-esteem of our girls? c’mon, tiff, i never meant to imply that BET was the ONLY cause of our lament (give me some credit, damn!). but we’re dealing here with an example about music, and BET plays music videos, soooo… i guess i better spell it out for you, lest i’m accused of not being able to READ again (eyes roll), i used BET as an apt example, ok? no matter what went down in the “old days” before BET, movies, tv, magazines, the internet, rap music, etc when black girls were still shakin that azz, today’s reality is that i’d be a fool to allow my daughter to take in those images without some serious parental guidance. if i’ve taken a “tired-assed” approach to today’s problems then whoopdee damn do. i don’t care, and i’ll take my chances.
finally, let’s talk about chauvinism, for which brotha bo called me out. if i did indeed call him a chauvinist, then chalk it up to the abrupt and imprecise nature of blogging, where comments are often hastily written, quickly reviewed and then entered without a second thought, but for all posterity. good writing, on the other hand, requires careful drafting and revision, as brotha bo knows because he is a good writer. but these processes are precluded from the art of blogging. so that’s one possibility. but let me tell you what i really think is happening with this issue of chauvinism. i made a statement in which a touchy subject was broached; indeed a chauvinist stands next to someone like a racist or a knicks fan as things you’d never want to be, or be accused of. i get that. and i don’t think i went that far in my assessment of the situation. i tried to say that there may have been a kind of chauvinism GOING ON, without concluding that the brotha was himself a chauvinist. i believe, obviously, that there is a difference. the former claim, if correct, can be ameliorated via education, discipline or punishment in some cases, whereas the latter claim can only be pitied. again, i’ve made no claims that bo was or is a chauvinist. and i may be wrong in my belief that there is even a kind of chauvisim at work here. (even if i’m right, i’ve no doubt chosen the wrong forum in which to express it!) all i’ve ever tried to do is to put into motion events that can initiate the setting of one sun, and to fix one’s eyes upon another sun, perhaps a brighter one.
Ok, I had heard of, but never listened to, India.Arie before all this started. As a result, I gave her a shot and listened to one of her records, “Acoustic Soul,” I think it was.
I can safely say now that way too much time is being devoted to her. Seriously. Since Ambien has been discovered to be a dangerous medicine, maybe doctors should look into prescribing her music to those who suffer from insomnia.
“And if all it takes is someone saying something nice to you to pull you in, we’ve got serious problems. The sad part–I don’t blame folks for jumping on her for that reason. It’s just a damn shame we live in a world where people will willingly embrace someone as boring and pedantic as India.Arie simply because she exists.”
That’s real!
I realize that I should have made this point in the previous post, because in hindsight, it seems as though I’m just bashing Arie and her fans. While I am doing that, I also should have bashed the landscape of popular black music, which has so little room for anything but negative stereotypes that people are immediately drawn to anything that is remotely “positive.”
This same phenomenon is responsible for the immense success of Tyler Perry, whose material sounds like it was written by an 8th grader (and the sucky romantic comedies that people love simply because the characters are “positive” upwardly mobile black folks).
Liking something is an objective choice. We all have guilty pleasures and we all have things we like because they speak to us.
Ive been reading you and frankly, What you say about India Arie makes sense. Even as a devoted fan of hers…what you say about the music makes sense.
I feel it differently and consequently I feel differently about it.
It is unfortunate that people get uncomfortable when someone they like doesnt like what they like. My wife hates some of the stuff I love, but rather than letting it drive a wedge between us, I listen to that stuff when she aint around. Life goes on.
Music IS a message. It speaks to people and people respond to it as they see fit.
I can no more blast you for disliking India Arie than you can blasting me for disliking No Limit. As music, they are equal…From the greatest Stevie Wonder song to the latest ditty by William Hung, music is equal. (it hurt to say that, but it is true)They are notes and sounds waiting for a hearer to respond to. And now we have.
Yeah, but they contain different notes organized in different ways. I’m not sure what you mean, PWordsmith.
Whew! Who knew India.Arie could invoke two posts worth of such, um, heated debate?
I think that in this situation, what we need are the timeless words of Thicke, Loren, and Burton:
(ahem)
Now the world don’t MOVE/to the beat of just one drum/What might be right for you/may not be right for some.
blah, blah, blah, and now, the chorus!
Because it takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world/It takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the wooooooorld.
Thank you, thank you.
The point of tonight’s musical entertainment? I like her. Some don’t. I also like the Lakers. Many people don’t. I don’t expect everyone to jump on my wagon just because I’m on it. Nor should they expect me to jump off because they’re not.
Live and let live, right?