First, let me start by apologizing for the harsh tone of the last post. I don’t think any of you are dumb, stupid or illiterate. I do think a few people had lots to say without reading, which is particularly frustrating for someone in my line of work. But Kobie hit me with something I hit him with months ago–never write something you wouldn’t say to someone’s face.
And I probably wouldn’t say that stuff to the faces of those I directed those lines toward. Not because I’d be scared to, but because I don’t know you. People that know me, I would have dropped those lines on in a heartbeat. Strangers? They don’t know that’s how I roll.
But if you thought I was praising No Limit, I can’t help but wonder what post you read.
Moving on, I see that Oprah went on Ed Lover’s radio show to talk about the perception that she hates hip hop.
I don’t see why it would be such a big deal if she hated hip hop. I have no qualm with a woman saying that she’s tired of hearing the language and imagery in rap music. If a homosexual man said the same thing, I wouldn’t bat an eye. No rational person would argue that hip hop is not littered with abusive language and imagery toward women (and gays, for that matter). So as a woman who has focused much of her work on improving women’s self-esteem, she’s got a very valid point.
The counterargument is that rap is no more misogynistic than society, and there’s some credence in that. But really, that doesn’t matter. If Oprah doesn’t wanna hear the word “bitch” over and over again, I don’t blame her. I wouldn’t listen to white folks call me a “nigger” and then say, “America’s racist! Why you singling me out?”
There are questions to be raised about why rappers get singled out. But that doesn’t mean that rappers aren’t wrong when they go the misogynist route.
On the other hand, I agree that she was foul for editing out Luda’s comments when he went on the show with the cast of “Crash.” It was also wrong to put “Crash” forth as some piece of intriguing social commentary, but that’s another post. I also can understand why Luda found it inappropriate for Oprah to use that opportunity to talk about his music. But if I had a talk show and Axl Rose was on it, you better believe I’d ask him about “One in a Million.”
But where Luda’s wrong is in asking how Oprah could have Chris Rock or Dave Chappelle on and not treat them the same way since they use the same language. They do, but I don’t think anyone would argue they do so with the same connotations. The language isn’t the full problem. The meaning behind it is what’s far more problematic. Just the same, I think Eddie Murphy’s old routines are far worse than anything Ludacris does.
Long of the short–Oprah’s right. Cats may not wanna admit it, but that’s undeniable. At some point in the near future, we’ve got to fix those things and increase the level of humanity in rap music. But to do that, those of us that hold the music near and dear to our hearts–and publish magazines about that music–need to take some accountability for what we’ve got going.
I’ll admit I ain’t no better than most people. I listen to the stuff, quote it, and appreciate the artistry in it. And like rappers, I argue that the art is a mirror of society. But those folks holding that mirror are more than welcome to fix their acts themselves. No need to wait for the masses to follow us.
28 thoughts on “Oprah Gets a Bad Rap”
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I’m by no means an Oprah stan but I refuse to think of Ludacris as an “actor.” Period.
Raptors ? Actors. Sorry.
“SpiderGoodlegs is caught up with a general bias against rappers in general. Resenting rappers for their music is one thing, but calling all of them bad actors is a sweeping generalization that’s not well thought out. Don’t be one of “those types,” please.”
Huh? Where did you get all of that from? Take your head out of your ass and quit generalizing me into some rap hating “group.” I think there’s more to acting than just getting a role in a movie. And if you got there by way of your rap career then why the fuck should we all pretend like you studied under Strassberg and are officially an actor with a capitol “A?”
Mos is a rapper, yes. But I think he’s worked a helluva lot longer and harder at proving he’s an actor than a raptor. He’s an exception and yes, there are others. But Ludacris and Mos aren’t in the same acting league. I mean are you kidding?
I didn’t say rappers ? actors. Reread MY post. I said “raptors.” As in rappers who suddenly decide they are actors without merit.
Spider,
Would you call Ice Cube or Will Smith an actor or a “raptor” at this point in their careers? Was there something about Ludacris’ performance in the movie or any of the other movie work he’s done that would generate a different professional title?
Bo,
My problem with Oprah’s assessment of misogyny in rap is that it is actually something of a two way street. If you look at many female rappers (right now I’m thinking of Lil’ Kim, Shawna, and Eve) their lyrics embrace the generic vibe of their male counterparts, especially in the most misogynistic sense of sex. Rap itself is often about the status of the person doing the rhyming and the evolution of the form has opened this concept up to both genders.
Definitely a topic for a longer form conversation and analysis.
evan
all I know is, everytime I listen to rap, I feel like gettin high, grabbing my crotch and doing felonious acts…ummm hmmm
Evan beat me to it, but if I had to guess, SpiderGoodlegs is caught up with a general bias against rappers in general. Resenting rappers for their music is one thing, but calling all of them bad actors is a sweeping generalization that’s not well thought out. Don’t be one of “those types,” please.
Chris Bridges, aka. Ludacris, played his best role on the flick “Crash.” In fact, the series of scenes after his character tried to carjack Terrence Deshaun Howard’s character’s ride was my personal favorite. Bridges’ character learned a life-long lesson in the form of a single, powerful sentence. One that all races, cultures and beliefs want to say to their fellow brethren but don’t always because it isn’t always the most polite thing: “You’re an embarrassment.” Even though Luda’s character only robbed white folks, he wasn’t thinking about the folks he represents.
That’s why Oprah had every right to rip the mysogyny found in a lot of Luda’s lyrics. She doesn’t feel that it represents the good that can be found in hip hop and its culture.
What she told Luda was dead on – “A lot of people who listen to your music aren’t as smart as you are. So they take some of that stuff literally when you are just writing it for entertainment purposes.”
Spider Goodlegs, I think you should watch “Gridlock’d” and “Gang Related.” They’re not Oscar winners by any means, but Tupac was great in those flicks. He had a knack for film. I think ‘Pac may have gone on to have a notable career in film.
And, to really blow your generalization that rapper ain’t actors out of the water, go watch Mos Def in “Something the Lord Made.” He deserved all the praise he received for that.
And I always laugh when Cube is on the screen too.
I think the reversal is more difficult. Actors don’t usually make good recording artists. I said “usually.” I don’t think there are absolutes in either case.
Spider Goodlegs wrote:
“But Ludacris and Mos aren’t in the same acting league. I mean are you kidding?”
I never said that. Please reread my post. No mention of comparing Ludacris to Mos Def. I basically discounted your statement genreralizing that “Rappers ? Actors.” To me yours was a statement of absolutes.
Spider Goodlegs wrote:
“But Ludacris and Mos aren’t in the same acting league. I mean are you kidding?”
I never said that. Please reread my post. No mention of comparing Ludacris to Mos Def. I basically discounted your statement genreralizing that “Rappers ? Actors.” To me yours was a statement of absolutes.
Wow, and I was convinced that this would become a series of rants on the qualities of the world’s most famous baby eating she-beastess Oprah. Guess I was wrong.
If you think about it, combine this post with the India.Arie posts (why has no one mentioned what a pretentious piece of trash she has to be to decide her name should be spelled that way?) and it really all boils down to the same general problem. People put waaaaaaaaay too much time and energy into trying to assign some deeper meaning or message to what these people do and say, when really they’re just a half step away from being court jesters and circus clowns to begin with.
Who gives a shit if Ludacris is a good actor? He’s not, but even if he was, why would it matter? Mos Def didn’t make a gigantic ass of himself in his last movie? Three fucking cheers for Mos Def. Really, there are better things to be talking about, let it go.
I think this is a pointless discussion because people are always unhappy with rap because of it’s foul language and mysoginist lyrics. Rap is mysoginist and filled with foul language. Here’s the problem, is it entertainment or is it something more? People talk about it being entertainment, so aren’t they’re an equal amount of movies and video games that are also forms of entertainment that are foul and mysoginistic? Ludacris shouldn’t have to teach people to differentiate between what is literal and what is entertainment. His job is to entertain. And he’s pretty good at it considering his hits and album sales. He’s obviously entertaining someone.
Make a distinction. If it’s entertainment than it’s entertainment. People have committed suicide to artist’s music, why aren’t the artists ever held liable? Because a cd can’t pick up a gun and shoot you. A person makes a conscious choice to do that. Just because Jay-Z says he sold drugs and made it out that way, doesn’t mean that he’s telling you to do the same. He’s telling you about his life. Even if he was promoting that lifestyle, he’s album isn’t gonna pitch rocks on the corner for you. That’s your decision. Perhaps the problem with rap music isn’t the music, but the people who are embracing it without making that distinction between reality and entertainment. We live in a society of civil liberties. What are they going to do Oprah, not allow rappers to say what they want? That would be the true injustice.
Art imitates life. None of these artists are saying anything that isn’t otherwise plausible to occur in real life. Blaming music is the easy way out. Blaming society and holding them accountable for their actions is the smart way out.
Music doesn’t rape, kill or create violence. Music doesn’t sell drugs. A cd can’t shoot anyone. A cd can’t sell anyone drugs.
The problem is society. Mobsters are glorified in The Sopranos. Why doesn’t Oprah ask James Gandolfini about his role and if he’s promoting organized crime? Why doesn’t Oprah criticize the message of that show? Ludacris should be responsible for telling his audience about reality and entertainment, but someone who’s portraying a violent, murderous Mobster doesn’t have to?
I don’t see anyone pinning Mafia violence on James Gandolfini. It’s unfair to blame the music and rappers for the ills of society. Okay, so what, they’re music is negative . . . and movies, tv shows and video games aren’t? It doesn’t make any sense, and there’s no way to justify the unfairness of the criticism of rap.
There, their, they’re rule?
Rap is not art it’s commerce. Secondly, it’s not a reflection of society because rappers aren’t engaged with society. They are selling the same ghetto message over and over to youth. Society ain’t youth and youth ain’t society. Rap isn’t directed at society, it is directed at a target market.
Everybody knows that the most true thing in the film ‘8 Mile’ is how female rappers get treated. That’s not America, that’s the rap industry.
You just wait until the first sexual harassment suit gets won. The house of cards will come tumbling down. I only wish I was the right kind of lawyer, because I’d be owning 10% of the whole industry.
“Raptors?” Sheeesh… I guess my age is showing. Could’ve sworn it was a typo.
Kirk, if India.Arie is pretentious for “da dot,” what about Prince and his:
O(+>
Symbol name?
Actually, if she would have lowered the case of her first “I” that would have been cool computer lingo.
india.Arie
OK, sorry for going off topic. Let me go back to arguing.
🙂
I agree with Spider that Mos Def worked harder to become an actor than a rapper. On his albums, Mos flows much more naturally than when he was on-screen. Of course there are more rappers than actors in Brooklyn, which surely contributed.
Oprah’s got a serious point though that rap has too much of a bad rep right now with mainstream audiences. Not all fans are smart enought to distinguish between what’s entertainment and what isn’t. Frankly, I don’t know how anyone could.
At any rate, Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, The Roots – introspective hip hop – is where it’s at. It’s not perfect but it’s a version of art that lyrically would be more positive for society as a whole.
Spider – I thought the same thing as Rex… thought “Raptors” was a typo! And I incorrectly placed you in a category that’s clearly not you….. you’re too well informed. I do apologize.
On a different note, when I see Oprah I think of that one Chappelle episode…
Rex, there’s probably no way you could have known this, but I may very well be the biggest Prince(ss) hater on the planet. His symbol is equally obnoxious to Indiana.Areola’s, or whatever she calls herself, name, but no more or less so. They’re both overrated and obnoxious, and I can’t really be bothered to distinguish between them beyond that.
Hey Farmdog, ever think about going into acting?
The problem is the huge demand for such rappers and lyrics, not the rappers and lyrics themselves. You know what would happen if you could get all major rappers to clean up their acts? They would be replaced by new rappers who used the same negative language–fans would consider these new voices to be “real.” Describing violence, misogyny, criminality, homophobia, and racism as an “authentic” black behavior is bigger and older than rap, despite what the Civil Rights generation and/or the cultural conservatives would have folks believe. Making this about rap (no matter how bad or offensive) is a smokescreen.
I agree with Shotclock.
Art often imitates life. If all the people that I see growing up that are successful, guess what I’m going to want to be?
It’s not so much the message that we are putting out, its the lack of an alternative. There’s no way we can get rid off all the disruptive images in our society, but what we can do is push more of the positive ones.
Like you said Oprah was extremely wrong for editing out Luda’s comments as well as for putting him on blast when he was on the show for “Crash,” not to discuss rap music. Futhermore if we are going to attack Rap music, shouldn’t we take similiar attacks on other entertainment genre’s i.e. Movies.
if y’all wanna see the affects of positive messages on society, check out the movie “What the bleep do we know”…there is a segment about the power of positive and negative messages and how they affect the quality of the chrystals formed by freezing individual water molecules…apparently, messages affect the structure of water molecules at the molecular level. Humans are 90% water (makes racism, homophobia, sexism etc… seem that much more ridiculous when you realize that 90% of all of us is EXACTLY the same), so it is not to difficult to extrapolate that positive and negative messages profoundly affect humans individually and collectively…be nice to people, folks…say nice things, and mean them…your life and the lives of those around you will improve perceptibly…it might take all the fun out of gangsta rap, so we’ll all have to find some Mozart Cd’s for our next drive by…
and Kirk, I’m glad you saw that I was trying to lighten things up!!!
Famdog, I’ll bet the differences between us are even less than 10%, scientifically that is.
I’m 90% water, 2% stale air, and 7.9% Evan Williams brand whiskey. Mmmmm, sweet cost effective goodness!
All this is intriguing and all, but Spidergooodlegs is a cunt.